Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week, we revisited the Davar estate, with sixteen-year-old Shallan trying hard to be obedient. This week, it’s back to Kaladin’s prison cell for a fateful conversation.
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here.
Click on through to join the discussion!
Chapter 62: The One Who Killed Promises
Point of View: Kaladin
Setting: Kholin warcamp prison
Symbology: Spears, Nalan
IN WHICH Kaladin grumbles at the sameness of the days in prison; Syl has been hiding from him; she speaks of seeing a Cryptic at the fight, and that she recognizes signs that they are looking for someone to bond; Dalinar enters the room, and Kaladin salutes despite himself; Dalinar assures him that he’ll be out in a few more days, but Kaladin expresses doubt, given Elhokar’s history; Dalinar knows immediately that he’s speaking of the silversmiths in Kholinar, and mentions the Roshone affair; Kaladin asks for further information, and Dalinar gives him a brief version; Kaladin phrases his response in terms that fail to allow Dalinar to understand the personal impact Roshone’s exile had on him; Dalinar reminds Kaladin that, however things should work, the way they do work means that challenging Amaram was an ineffective approach to changing them; Dalinar leaves, and Kaladin focuses only on the fact that Elhokar’s poor decision-making inadvertently cost his family their comfortable position in Hearthstone, and decides that it would be best for the kingdom if Elhokar were removed.
Quote of the Week
“I gave you a position no darkeyes has ever held in this army. I let you into conferences with the king, and I listened when you spoke. Do not make me regret those decisions, soldier.”
“You don’t already?” Kaladin asked.
“I’ve come close,” Dalinar said. “I understand, though. If you truly believe what you told me about Amaram … well, if I’d been in your place, I’d have been hard pressed not to do the same thing you did. But storm it, man, you’re still a darkeyes.”
“It shouldn’t matter.”
“Maybe it shouldn’t, but it does. You want to change that? Well, you’re not going to do it by screaming like a lunatic and challenging men like Amaram to duels. You’ll do it by distinguishing yourself in the position I gave you. Be the kind of man that others admire, whether they be lighteyed or dark. Convince Elhokar that a darkeyes can lead. That will change the world.”
Hmm. I’d forgotten that Dalinar says this so clearly. “Maybe it shouldn’t, but it does.” This is what I keep trying to say: when things don’t work the way they should, by all means you should work to change them – but ignoring the way they work won’t change anything… except changing your status from “free” to “in prison.”
Commentary
This is really the meat of the chapter, as Dalinar unwittingly fills in the final arc that brings Kaladin’s and Moash’s backstories into a loop.
“The Roshone affair.” I’m reminded of Chapter 37 in The Way of Kings, when Lirin said, “I still don’t know which highlord was behind sending him here to torment us, though I wish I had him for a few moments in a dark room….” Now Kaladin knows, and I suppose with the backdrop of Lirin’s anger at whatever highlord inflicted Roshone on them, it’s no wonder he holds Elhokar partially to blame for what his family suffered from Roshone’s malice.
Questions:
- Was it a good thing for Kaladin to bring up Elhokar’s past errors? Is his own situation (keeping Dalinar in mind, here) sufficient justification for more or less accusing Elhokar of intending to leave him to die in prison?
- Should he have told Dalinar about his own Roshone connection? Would Dalinar have done anything differently? Would telling the story have changed Kaladin’s perspective? Would it have made any difference in Kaladin’s decision to support Moash’s assassination plans?
- Is this an overuse of the lack-of-communication plot device, or is it a justified use, or is the device irrelevant to the situation? (I.e., lack of communication isn’t really the problem here.)
I, of course, have my own opinions on these things, but I’d really like to hear your discussions.
I know I’ve mentioned this before, but I think it’s worth pointing out now that we’re here. Dalinar’s reaction to Kaladin’s claim that Elhokar “has a history of letting inconvenient people rot in dungeons until they die” should reveal something to Kaladin and to us. That was an isolated incident. While Elhokar does indeed have a real history of taking advice from the wrong people and making truly atrocious leadership decisions, this is not one he repeated. Dalinar instantly knew exactly who Kaladin was talking about: the silversmiths back in Kholinar… meaning it only happened that one time.
Which is not to say that he didn’t have other people unjustly imprisoned, or that he didn’t thoughtlessly make a mess of many lives by doing favors for those who flattered him enough. I’m just saying that clearly someone learned something from that debacle, and either Elhokar was smart enough not to repeat it, or Dalinar (and/or Gavilar) was smart enough to keep a better eye on the crown prince.
Kaladin, of course, only sees that Elhokar’s past foolishness ended with his own family’s maltreatment by Roshone, and connects it with the tantrum Elhokar threw after the big fight and his own imprisonment. As a result – despite Dalinar’s wise words about loyalty and generosity and the flaws of all men – Kaladin decides he’s qualified to determine the course that will be best for the welfare of the kingdom and Dalinar himself.
Just a bit arrogant, m’lad. Just a bit.
Also: if Dalinar’s “I was … away at the time” is referring to his trip to the Nightwatcher, said trip had nothing to do with Gavilar’s death. (I seem to recall recent speculation along that line, right?)
Stormwatch: This is Kaladin’s tenth day in prison.
Sprenspotting: Kaladin sees captivity-spren! Pretty sure that’s what they are, “strange spren like taut wires crossing before him.” I have a theory that Axies never saw them because being imprisoned just never bothered him enough. Could have something to do with the length of the imprisonment, though, I suppose.
In other news, Syl has become very hard to spot – which I assume is largely a matter of her discomfort with Kaladin’s current attitude and the distance he’s put between them. However, she’s still talking to him.
“There was a Cryptic at the fight,” her voice said softly.
“You mentioned those before, didn’t you? A type of spren?”
“A revolting type.” She paused. “But not evil, I don’t think.” She sounded begrudging. “I was going to follow it, as it fled, but you needed me. When I went back to look, it had hidden from me.”
“What does it mean?” Kaladin asked, frowning.
“Cryptics like to plan,” Syl said slowly, as if recalling something long lost. “Yes … I remember. They debate and watch and never do anything. But …”
“What?” Kaladin asked, rising.
“They’re looking for someone,” Syl said. “I’ve seen the signs. Soon, you might not be alone, Kaladin.”
Looking for someone. To choose, like him, as a Surgebinder. What kind of Knight Radiant had been made by a group of spren Syl so obviously detested? It didn’t seem like someone he’d want to get to know.
Oh, storms, Kaladin thought, sitting back down. If they choose Adolin …
The thought should have made him sick. Instead, he found Syl’s revelation oddly comforting. Not being alone, even if it did turn out to be Adolin, made him feel better and drove away some small measure of his gloom.
I’m… just going to leave that there for you to discuss. I can’t seem to phrase my comments coherently, but this conversation seems Significant.
All Creatures Shelled and Feathered
No, this has neither shell nor feather, and in fact isn’t in this chapter at all. I include it anyway, and my reasons are twofold: One, I miss Carl around here. Two, this chapter could seriously use some levity. Or levitation. Either one.
Also: Snuhr. I want some this year!
Heraldic Symbolism: Nalan. I would venture to guess that his presence reflects Kaladin’s conclusion that “justice” requires getting rid of the king, presuming to know what’s best for the kingdom.
There. That ought to keep us depressed until next week, when Shallan gets all clever and outwits a Ghostblood or something. See you in the comments!
Alice Arneson is a long-time Tor.com commenter and Sanderson beta-reader. She is currently up to her ears in Christmas preparations, now that the Calamity proofreading is complete.
Shouldn’t that bit about a Cryptic choosing Adolin be under shipping wars? :D
I wish Syl had expounded upon the signs she was talking about. I hope that at some point in the series (either in the 1st 5 books or the 2nd 5 books) that we learn more about the Sprens’ requirements for bonding somebody. I believe that each type of Spren (Honorspren, Highspren, Cryptics, etc.) has its own requirements. I hope Brandon writes chapters that have POVs from Spren. I would love to read a Syl or Pattern POV chapter.
It was too bad that Kaladin could not trust Dalinar enough to admit the impact of Roshone on Kaldin’s life. I do not think that Dalinar learning this knowledge about Kaladin would have changed anything in this chapter. Rather, Dalinar was showing (and telling) Kaladin that he (a lighteyes) trusts Kaladin (a darkeyes). Kaladin telling Dalinar about Roshone would have shown that at least in this once instance, Kaladin returns the trust. Even by the end of WoR, I do not believe that Kaladin 100% trusts Dalinar. I think that Kaladin believes that Dalinar is a good man and is not like the typical lighteye. However, I still do not believe that Kaladin trusts Dalinar. Hopefully Kaladin’s intended journey to Hearthstone will allow Kaladin to put his mistrust of lighteyes as a class behind him. (I distinguish this type of class-based mistrust from the mistrust of actual individuals for specific reasons — like Sadeas and Amaram.)
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
LMAO!! Alice you are great! (just saw the ferret)!
Thank you!! Carl, we miss you!
omg
I have not been able to see the comments for a month. Therefore, not able to post as well. What is up with this website? I’ve only been able to see Alice’s opening commentary, then it jumps to the bottom ad line. So frustrating! I have tried so many refreshing tricks to try to get the comments back but nothing worked. I was thinking I may have been blocked. I didn’t say anything offensive! Or so I thought…
Finally today I see the comments. But now I feel too behind to jump back into the discussion. Yuck. Just stating my dissatisfaction.
noblehunter @1 – That would have been a valid choice! :D
Andrew @2 – I can’t quite decide if I want to read spren POVs or not. In many ways, it would be very cool; on the other hand, I like the idea that we simply can’t get into their “heads” – their thought processes are too different from ours. (What are the thought processes of a cognitive entity, anyway?) This turns out to be one area where I have no particular hopes or expectations… but I definitely would like to know more about the choosing process.
Braid_Tug @3 – Thank you for the picture! And you’re welcome. ;)
Other things – One more question I meant to ask but forgot: Who exactly is “the one who killed promises”? Dalinar, Elhokar, Kaladin, Roshone, Syl… I don’t really have a good solution on this one, and it’s not a quotation from the chapter or elsewhere in the book.
ETA: Jonah, I flagged your comment to be sure the mods see it. I hope it gets better! May I ask what platform you’re using? I use Chrome, and rarely (though not never) have problems.
I, too, would dearly like to know what those “signs” are, and whether Syl is actually right about it, as we know that Pattern has been bonded for years. Yes, Elokhar had been seeing something very much like Cryptics in the mirrors, but was he the only one, or are there more secretly terrified people, afraid of mentioning it so as not to appear mad, being scoped out by them in the camps? And, hopefully, he is not destined to be eventually chosen. IMHO, YMMV.
And BTW, isn’t it odd that Syl couldn’t tell that Pattern was already taken, and that she couldn’t recognize that Shallan was bonded? And vice versa? Shouldn’t the bond change the cognitive imprint of a surge-binder, given that it becomes part of them and allows them to hold and manipulate Stormlight and the Surges? Hm…
Well, Kaladin is the one who eventually comes closest to “killing promises” among the people mentioned in this chapter, IMHO. And his decision to kill Elokhar is pivotal in that.
And yea, maybe a hint re: Adolin’s possible destiny. Though not with a Cryptic, I don’t think. Also, a sign of developing bromance.
P.S. For me the comments sometimes load and sometimes (usually when the site is busy) don’t. Regardless of a platform, but weaker devices have more problems.
#4 @Jonah – I’ve had problems with the comments lately on my phone (using Chrome) but if I refresh a couple times they do eventually show up. Hopefully you’ll see it working better!
I think seeing how distant Syl is from Kaladin is what makes this chapter difficult. Of course there’s worse to come.
I would not call Kaladin arrogant since that implies a disdain for other people and their views. It’s just that he has complete confidence in the correctness of his own opinions to the extent that he offers them even in the presence of the high princes and king. His penchant for disregarding societal norms and his lower darkeye status is what has lead to his current predicament – although he refuses to see it that way. However, I can see the reason for his not admitting his Roshone connection to Dalinar. Had he done so, Dalinar might have been duty bound to dismiss him from serving as head of the king’s guardians since he had admitted to yet another reason to hate Elhokar. While that part of his duties could have been separated from his guardian duty to Dalinar and family, it might have been too difficult to justify. Such a dismissal would have left Kaladin at loose ends and destroyed the proper functioning of the former bridgemen as the protective force for the Kholins. In any case, the discovery that Elhokar was the one who sent (or exiled) Roshone to Hearthstone that brought so much grief to Kaladin’s family was the final straw that pushed Kaladin to agree to Moash’s involvement in the plot to assassinate the king.
I don’t know if Kaladin telling Dalinar about his personal connection to Roshone would have have changed the physical situation, but it would have given Dalinar more insight into WHY Kaladin did what he did, and helped instruct Elhokar that actions have consequences.
@5 The one who killed promises – in this chapter I feel like we’re supposed to take that as Roshone (as it’s basically his existence that sets that into motion), but later on it becomes Kaladin because of that. But except for Syl I can see arguments for all of them (even if I consider promises Syl somewhat made broken, she wouldn’t be the one killing them).
Also lol at the picture and I’m with you when it comes to wishing for snow. I’m in the part of Maryland that’s close enough to the Chesapeake Bay where I’m lucky to get decent accumulation of snow (unlike the western handle of the state which reliably gets slammed with it).
As to this being an example of the abuse of miscommunication/lack there-of as a device…I think it passes. Kaladin’s already in a bit of a toxic mindset, but even disregarding that, the reveal of who sent Roshone is just shocking/disorienting enough that I can’t see most people as opening up about that. Not right away anyhow.
Plus Kaladin doesn’t dissemble well, but we’ve seen that Dalinar is not always the most perceptive about picking up on details like that (although he does pick up on it leaving Kaladin worse off or it seems like he does).
So in this case it doesn’t feel like deliberate forced miscommunication, at least to me.